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There are a lot of myths circulated around ev s due to the doomsayers and haters and likewise lithium battery life is a big topic that is discussed endlessy BUT i have never bothered not charging to 100% on my laptop or phone and nor will I with my car-it has protection and buffers and am happy with an 8 year guarantee. Have a google of the EV man-and look at his graphs on Tesla battery life-they really do not degrade as badly as people are making out-mind TEsla battery management is supposed to be really good but am happy to trust in BMW and there is absolutely NO WAY i am charging to 80% or limiting use to 20-it gets used by a car-we fill it so it's ready to go-101 miles at the mo-otherwise range would be so poor as to make the car v inconvenient. And we use it till we feel we need the range again-most days therefore we top it up!
 

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2020 Mini Electric Cooper S - Level 2 - White Silver / Energetic Yellow
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I was not condescending just honest.
When I mentioned the 20% / 80% you said:

“This advice is for battery life longevity and applies to any device with a lithium ion or lithium polymer battery pack.”

Your reply blindly supports the misinformed advice about EV batteries, I simply added so facts.

The “issue” about EV batteries also amuses me because yes there will be failures of batteries and degradation over time. But the same can be said of ICE cars, they need maintenance, replacement parts, etc. In an ideal world everything would stay perfect for ever and we would not need to repair or replace anything, but in reality cars will cost us money to run. Overall by my calculations I will save a significant amount of money with my electric Mini, even including purchase price. Sure in 10 years time it may need new batteries, but they will be cheaper and most likely much better. Just as a 10 year old ICE car may have had a new clutch, perhaps an engine, gear box, who knows what in those 10 years, it won’t have been cost free motoring.

If we take the advice to limit charge and discharge for EVs, maybe we should be telling people to not rev ICEs too much, or limit mileage to prevent wear and tear to gearbox, etc. The degradation of EV batteries is just another wear and tear item on a car, it does not fail totally though, it just reduces over time, many people will never even notice. As I am a very low mileage driver (2100 miles in 7 months) I don’t expect I will be looking at replacing my batteries for many years to come, if at all.

In 9 years time we will only be able to by EVs or Hybrids we don’t really have a choice but to accept the new ways of motoring costs.
 

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2020 Mini Electric Cooper S - Level 2 - White Silver / Energetic Yellow
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There are a lot of myths circulated around ev s due to the doomsayers and haters and likewise lithium battery life is a big topic that is discussed endlessy BUT i have never bothered not charging to 100% on my laptop or phone and nor will I with my car-it has protection and buffers and am happy with an 8 year guarantee. Have a google of the EV man-and look at his graphs on Tesla battery life-they really do not degrade as badly as people are making out-mind TEsla battery management is supposed to be really good but am happy to trust in BMW and there is absolutely NO WAY i am charging to 80% or limiting use to 20-it gets used by a car-we fill it so it's ready to go-101 miles at the mo-otherwise range would be so poor as to make the car v inconvenient. And we use it till we feel we need the range again-most days therefore we top it up!
Agreed, I’m with you.
EVMan has some excellent videos on batteries and range:



This is the best one about EV battery myths:




Another good on about old Leaf batteries:

https://youtu.be/kaUw4hNVr5s
 

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I was not condescending just honest.
When I mentioned the 20% / 80% you said:

“This advice is for battery life longevity and applies to any device with a lithium ion or lithium polymer battery pack.”

Your reply blindly supports the misinformed advice about EV batteries, I simply added so facts.
No, it really doesn't, but you do seem to be on a crusade to defend and justify you vehicle choice:

The “issue” about EV batteries also amuses me because yes there will be failures of batteries and degradation over time. But the same can be said of ICE cars, they need maintenance, replacement parts, etc. In an ideal world everything would stay perfect for ever and we would not need to repair or replace anything, but in reality cars will cost us money to run. Overall by my calculations I will save a significant amount of money with my electric Mini, even including purchase price. Sure in 10 years time it may need new batteries, but they will be cheaper and most likely much better. Just as a 10 year old ICE car may have had a new clutch, perhaps an engine, gear box, who knows what in those 10 years, it won’t have been cost free motoring.

If we take the advice to limit charge and discharge for EVs, maybe we should be telling people to not rev ICEs too much, or limit mileage to prevent wear and tear to gearbox, etc. The degradation of EV batteries is just another wear and tear item on a car, it does not fail totally though, it just reduces over time, many people will never even notice. As I am a very low mileage driver (2100 miles in 7 months) I don’t expect I will be looking at replacing my batteries for many years to come, if at all.

In 9 years time we will only be able to by EVs or Hybrids we don’t really have a choice but to accept the new ways of motoring costs.



Sounds fun!
I was trying to make sure I got the full range. I have only done it on the one trip. Just wanted to see what difference it made.
I think you're just salty because you don't get jokes!
 

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TBH Dragonfly I can see where he is coming from-am on a few forums and the misinformation and rubbish written about electric vehicles is very frustrating. People simply don't won't compare them to fossil fuelled cars. They seem to ignore an 8 year guarantee on battery life and say my ice car will last longer without considering that most ev batteries are still going strong after 8 years, they quote the price of new ones from a manufacturer-if your ice engine blows up how many go to a main dealer-they get a recon. EV batteries will be available on the recon market or individual cells will be replaced rather than the whole shebang.The whole thing is very frustrating if you have an ev and love it. I just gave up on the caravan forum I read-they just don't think that an ev will ever pull a decent sized caravan or be at a price they can afford, in spite of the fact that some of them drive round in 50k Mercedes etc. They quote the TEsla X as being too expensive and too little towing range-2200kg and probably around 150miles. I call that amazing given your charging in one of those is totally free care of Mr Musk but as yet they are a bit pricey-but things are moving on! I am an optimist but above all our Mini EV is the best drive of any Mini I've ever owned-sorry strike that any car, and probably better/ at least as much fun as my motorbikes both of which have well over 100bhp.
We've had a Mini Cooper R series Cabrio, still have a R series Roadster S with 184bhp, a Mini Cooper 1.5 a Clubman S and a Clubman JCW (228bhp model) and this little ev knocks spots off all bar the Roadster which feels around the same sort of speed but is more raw, less well made but has roof off fun. The only issue I can see so far with my Mini is my license is at huge risk; I simply cannot help overtaking ICE vehicles, and if an ICE vehicle arrives on my bumper I enjoy leaving them for dead, immensely.

EVs are the future-that 's how I feel and I feel very pleased about that as the potential is amazing.
 

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2020 Mini Electric Cooper S - Level 2 - White Silver / Energetic Yellow
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No, it really doesn't, but you do seem to be on a crusade to defend and justify you vehicle choice:

I think you're just salty because you don't get jokes!
I’m not justifying my choice, no need to. I’m simply helping others make an informed decision or help with queries, but I’m more than happy to leave the forums if that will make you happy. I do get the jokes, I know it it was ironic about the 50mph, it was not fun, I was just trying to clarify that was not my usual driving style, far from it 😀

It seems I have outstayed my welcome so bye bye, good luck to all the new Mini drivers, enjoy.
 

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TBH Dragonfly I can see where he is coming from-am on a few forums and the misinformation and rubbish written about electric vehicles is very frustrating. People simply don't won't compare them to fossil fuelled cars. They seem to ignore an 8 year guarantee on battery life and say my ice car will last longer without considering that most ev batteries are still going strong after 8 years, they quote the price of new ones from a manufacturer-if your ice engine blows up how many go to a main dealer-they get a recon. EV batteries will be available on the recon market or individual cells will be replaced rather than the whole shebang.The whole thing is very frustrating if you have an ev and love it. I just gave up on the caravan forum I read-they just don't think that an ev will ever pull a decent sized caravan or be at a price they can afford, in spite of the fact that some of them drive round in 50k Mercedes etc. They quote the TEsla X as being too expensive and too little towing range-2200kg and probably around 150miles. I call that amazing given your charging in one of those is totally free care of Mr Musk but as yet they are a bit pricey-but things are moving on! I am an optimist but above all our Mini EV is the best drive of any Mini I've ever owned-sorry strike that any car, and probably better/ at least as much fun as my motorbikes both of which have well over 100bhp.
We've had a Mini Cooper R series Cabrio, still have a R series Roadster S with 184bhp, a Mini Cooper 1.5 a Clubman S and a Clubman JCW (228bhp model) and this little ev knocks spots off all bar the Roadster which feels around the same sort of speed but is more raw, less well made but has roof off fun. The only issue I can see so far with my Mini is my license is at huge risk; I simply cannot help overtaking ICE vehicles, and if an ICE vehicle arrives on my bumper I enjoy leaving them for dead, immensely.

EVs are the future-that 's how I feel and I feel very pleased about that as the potential is amazing.
Ah ok, I get it, there are some raw feelings.

I’m not justifying my choice, no need to. I’m simply helping others make an informed decision or help with queries, but I’m more than happy to leave the forums if that will make you happy. I do get the jokes, I know it it was ironic about the 50mph, it was not fun, I was just trying to clarify that was not my usual driving style, far from it 😀

It seems I have outstayed my welcome so bye bye, good luck to all the new Mini drivers, enjoy.
Aw, don't go!
You clearly have some good EV knowledge and forums like this remain a valuable resource for years to come.


I would say to both of you that I am by no means an EV basher. I like cats and dogs equally.
 

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Car magazine had an electric mini on a long term test and the reporter who was using the car for his daily driver never managed to get over 100 miles from a full charge. He reported he always suffered range anxiety whenever he had to do a long run and plan his route to include several charge up stops.
 

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I’m not justifying my choice, no need to. I’m simply helping others make an informed decision or help with queries, but I’m more than happy to leave the forums if that will make you happy. I do get the jokes, I know it it was ironic about the 50mph, it was not fun, I was just trying to clarify that was not my usual driving style, far from it 😀

It seems I have outstayed my welcome so bye bye, good luck to all the new Mini drivers, enjoy.
Don't go Parky we need you here. Your knowledge has helped me and lots of others no end.
 

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2020 Mini Electric Cooper S - Level 2 - White Silver / Energetic Yellow
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I see there is no response from the OP yet.
I suspect my thoughts about a troll might be correct…..
Oh well, hopefully someone found the info useful 😀😂
 

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I know it's easy to become upset sometimes on forums, but if we all had the same opinion all of the time, then the forum would have very little value. Differences of opinion and banter are good as long as it's done in a constructive way and kept civil and I have found this thread helpful.

The WLTP economy figures for ICE cars are realistic as long as you are not too heavy with the right foot. From memory the JCW has a WLTP combined consumption of 39-41 MPG and today I achieved 39.5 MPG on a 24 mile mixed driving round trip from cold without trying to hard. The lifetime average is currently at 34.7 MPG, and that includes 2,500 miles as a demonstrator, so my average since owning in closer to 36 MPG.

As stated previously, the issue with the EV vehicles range is the temperature sensitivity in combination with a WLTP test protocol which I think is conducted at 23C; I tried to confirm this in the EU Regulations but it's a 600+ page document and very hard going. Attached link for those with interest, time and patience!

I know it's easy to point the finger at buyers for not doing their homework but not ALL EV tests highlight this problem and I wonder how many sales reps inform potential buyers that the range can drop to under 100 miles in a typical UK winter. It feels a bit like someone buying a Landrover, experiencing reliability problems and then commenting "You should have read the JD Power reliability survey" - it might be a fair point but doesn't solve the problem. Moreover, the intent of the WLTP is inform the buyer (it's fair for ICE engines) so it's a serious flaw in the current protocol to conduct the tests at a summer temperature for EV vehicles when the range is so adversely affected by temperature. I can't even remember the last time we had 23C in Northern Ireland, I think it was August 2018 😎

With N.Ireland having the poorest charge network in the UK and the limited winter range, I really don't think it would work for me. Still I'll probably try one in the spring / summer when the dealers open up again and I'll make sure I'm seated when he values my JCW.

i find Jeremy's comments on the performance interesting as, on paper, the EV is slower over all the usual acceleration tests than a JCW. Maybe it's the instant torque from zero speed that makes it feel faster.

EU WLTP Test Regulations
 

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2020 Mini Electric Cooper S - Level 2 - White Silver / Energetic Yellow
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I know it's easy to become upset sometimes on forums, but if we all had the same opinion all of the time, then the forum would have very little value. Differences of opinion and banter are good as long as it's done in a constructive way and kept civil and I have found this thread helpful.

The WLTP economy figures for ICE cars are realistic as long as you are not too heavy with the right foot. From memory the JCW has a WLTP combined consumption of 39-41 MPG and today I achieved 39.5 MPG on a 24 mile mixed driving round trip from cold without trying to hard. The lifetime average is currently at 34.7 MPG, and that includes 2,500 miles as a demonstrator, so my average since owning in closer to 36 MPG.

As stated previously, the issue with the EV vehicles range is the temperature sensitivity in combination with a WLTP test protocol which I think is conducted at 23C; I tried to confirm this in the EU Regulations but it's a 600+ page document and very hard going. Attached link for those with interest, time and patience!

I know it's easy to point the finger at buyers for not doing their homework but not ALL EV tests highlight this problem and I wonder how many sales reps inform potential buyers that the range can drop to under 100 miles in a typical UK winter. It feels a bit like someone buying a Landrover, experiencing reliability problems and then commenting "You should have read the JD Power reliability survey" - it might be a fair point but doesn't solve the problem. Moreover, the intent of the WLTP is inform the buyer (it's fair for ICE engines) so it's a serious flaw in the current protocol to conduct the tests at a summer temperature for EV vehicles when the range is so adversely affected by temperature. I can't even remember the last time we had 23C in Northern Ireland, I think it was August 2018 😎

With N.Ireland having the poorest charge network in the UK and the limited winter range, I really don't think it would work for me. Still I'll probably try one in the spring / summer when the dealers open up again and I'll make sure I'm seated when he values my JCW.

i find Jeremy's comments on the performance interesting as, on paper, the EV is slower over all the usual acceleration tests than a JCW. Maybe it's the instant torque from zero speed that makes it feel faster.

EU WLTP Test Regulations
The performance is an interesting one, many tests have reported much better 0-60 times, some stating it is the fastest Mini to 60. Maybe Mini are under reporting the performance so that JCW customers don’t feel cheated? I think I is definitely the fastest 0-30 which maybe why it feels faster overall.
As for range, it seems to me that if someone is really concerned about the range of a car before they buy it that they might do a bit of research before investing £25k, I know that not everyone will, but it’s a lot to spend without covering the basics. Sometimes it is just a case of people not really wanting to believe what they read / see, they think the know better and have made the decision to buy the car regardless. I agree the WLTP figures are misleading which is why I try to advise people to look for real world range figures. Having said all that, I think the range meter on the Mini is very pessimistic and the range seems to not go down as much as it says. I noticed that turning the heater down from 22 to 20 degrees yesterday added 5 miles to my range 😂😂😂
Anyway, here’s to happier and friendly discussions 👍
 

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2020 Mini Electric Cooper S - Level 2 - White Silver / Energetic Yellow
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0-60 mph in 6.8 seconds here:


This one managed sub 6.4 seconds:

 

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Yes might be the 0-30. Still not got used to the rocket ship. Discussions on forums can often feel abrupt if there is an opinion difference. You can't see a face or intonation so typing can seem more aggressive. I got so annoyed with ev doomsayers on caravantalk forum I exited that particular thread. Simply wanted to tell some they were dinosaurs less politely.
 

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Discussion Starter #38
A few things to note:

1. The WLTP quoted range of 140 - 144 miles is not real world figures. Mini say the following on the website “Mini Electric figures are for comparison purposes and may not reflect real life driving results which depend on a number of factors including the starting charge of the battery, accessories fitted (post registration), variations in weather, driving styles and vehicle load.”

2. In the Winter electric cars have a significantly reduced range, this is due to how batteries work at low temperatures and the extra demand placed on them due to needing more heating, lights, etc.

3. The way you drive, regardless of the driving mode selected will also make a difference. Do you try drive in a careful way or use it like a go cart? Do you use the brakes at all or do you anticipate well and use the regen brakes most of the time?

As to the range I am getting: At the moment on cold days I am seeing a quoted range of around 100 miles. The actual range achieved can be more than the range shown as the figure tends to be pessimistic.
In the summer when I first got the car I was seeing a quoted range of 120 miles. I did make a trip to Blackpool and back which is 112 miles round trip, when I got home the car was showing a remaining range of approx 30 miles, so I have seen the full quoted range is possible. I did the trip in Green+ mode, did not go over 50mph on the motorway and was very careful to drive as economically as possible.

If you had done a bit of research before you bought the car then you would also have seen that the real world range of the Mini was quoted as 115 miles. As with all electric cars the WLTP is not really possible and real world ranges should be looked at. You can see this at the following site:


If you also read / watch any reviews of the Electric Mini which I presume you would have done before you bought the car, they all say that the range of 144 miles will not be possible in the real world and to expect more like 100 miles.

I don’t think you have faulty cars, they are performing the way all electric Minis seem to be doing, in line with other electric cars, i.e. giving a less than WLTP range in the real world. I don’t think you will get anywhere with BMW as they make is clear the 144 miles range is for comparison purposes only and not a guaranteed figure.
I
 

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Discussion Starter #39
We have 2 minii electrics , and both cars has never been over 99 miles on a full charge !
have we got 2 bad cars or is this the average ?Has anyone got anywhere near the mini’s quoted 145miles ?
please complain as i think we were sold a cars that doesn’t actually do145 miles .( tried green plus ) makes no difference . It should be fixed .
i was hoping to do my110 per day but now its not possible!
bmw mini have not yet answered my issue yet
 

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Discussion Starter #40
Why research when the salesman quoted these numbers , anyway, I’m suprised mini bmw hasn’t come back with a detailed answer / excuse like yours as of yet .
I’ll post what happens next, i may affect all mini electric owners ?
 
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