UK new car discount, what did u get?
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I think the list price of mine came in at £25,750 with options when I bought six months ago.
To get the first big dealer I went to to give me a good reduction when he didn't have a price to beat, I promised him that if someone else was any less than £100 cheaper over the 3-year PCP term, he'd still get the deal. He said whatever I got elsewhere he could price match as they were the biggest dealer in the North West/Midlands and had the capacity to do so as the sale mattered more to him at the time of year rather than out and out profit.
Found a really good guy at the other big dealer in the North West/Midlands (arguably bigger) and we had a bit of a falling out when I told him I couldn't go ahead because the price was so dear. Because of his reaction - he kind of had a pop at me for wasting his time (not very oily car salesman sort of thing, just like a mildly annoyed genuine bloke), I could tell he wanted the deal. He told me he'd come back to me in two days with his 'take it or leave it' deal.
I was trading in a fairly hammered R56 Cooper S that was well specced with a full FSH but a bit rough around the edges and well-loved, shall we say, with 98,000 miles on it, and the book value was about £3,000 and I can't be bothered entertaining tyre kickers on my own driveway for a couple of hundred groats better.
This was my first ever PCP and I told myself I'd only do it if the numbers came out below £11,000 over the three year period on 15,000 miles a year, as I've always shunned PCP on the basis I only ever hear of people getting extremely weak deals when you actually work the numbers out. But maybe everyone I know is just rubbish at cutting a deal!
Anyway, I didn't hold out much hope, but when he came back to me as promised, he sounded as pessimistic that I would go for what he was about to say as I was that he would get to my price, but much to my amazement he came back at £10,998.
Which worked out at £314 per month.
When I took it back to my first dealer who said he would beat anything, and this was beating by nearly four figures over the three year period, he said as far as he could see that was a loss and he must just have a lot in his pocket from someone else he had ripped off.
Went to 22 dealers over the next day and told them if they could beat it, the deal was theirs no questions asked. Half of them called me a liar. I don't know whether it is that good a deal and as the F56 gets older I imagine better deals will be able to be achieved as it becomes the old kid on the block and they have to start giving them away a bit more.
For the record though, 4 months afterwards while looking at a car for someone else, I managed to get a 3-dr Audi S1 with the full nav and pretty heavy on the options list for slightly less. Which given the price of the S1 I considered to be a better deal. But I doubt he would have given me as much for my old R56. Plus l don't want an S1. Nice though it is.
Back to mine though, I didn't care what the composition of deposit and monthly payments was - the only figure I was bothered about was how much cash I would be parting with over the three year term, and it kind of upsets most dealers as they are just used to adjusting the monthly payments to make everything seem rosier.
Being a bit of a novice to the whole PCP thing, the thing that did please me was the addition of certain optional extras making literally making £3 or £4 difference over three years (i.e. pence per month) because of the effect they have on depreciation within the finance model.
It got me a long way below the prices I was first quoted and I was more than happy with the price in the end as it was my target price which I didn't think was achievable after my first 10 days searching. I'm sure other people have done better, but I don't think at that time I could have achieved much more. If I can't get a deal next time round, I'll switch marques or just buy some old heap for pennies to tide me over. This time it worked for me - I might not be so lucky next time. But I won't enter in to what I judge to be a rip-off PCP.
Although it might get difficult if we have parity with the Euro by then!
To get the first big dealer I went to to give me a good reduction when he didn't have a price to beat, I promised him that if someone else was any less than £100 cheaper over the 3-year PCP term, he'd still get the deal. He said whatever I got elsewhere he could price match as they were the biggest dealer in the North West/Midlands and had the capacity to do so as the sale mattered more to him at the time of year rather than out and out profit.
Found a really good guy at the other big dealer in the North West/Midlands (arguably bigger) and we had a bit of a falling out when I told him I couldn't go ahead because the price was so dear. Because of his reaction - he kind of had a pop at me for wasting his time (not very oily car salesman sort of thing, just like a mildly annoyed genuine bloke), I could tell he wanted the deal. He told me he'd come back to me in two days with his 'take it or leave it' deal.
I was trading in a fairly hammered R56 Cooper S that was well specced with a full FSH but a bit rough around the edges and well-loved, shall we say, with 98,000 miles on it, and the book value was about £3,000 and I can't be bothered entertaining tyre kickers on my own driveway for a couple of hundred groats better.
This was my first ever PCP and I told myself I'd only do it if the numbers came out below £11,000 over the three year period on 15,000 miles a year, as I've always shunned PCP on the basis I only ever hear of people getting extremely weak deals when you actually work the numbers out. But maybe everyone I know is just rubbish at cutting a deal!
Anyway, I didn't hold out much hope, but when he came back to me as promised, he sounded as pessimistic that I would go for what he was about to say as I was that he would get to my price, but much to my amazement he came back at £10,998.
Which worked out at £314 per month.
When I took it back to my first dealer who said he would beat anything, and this was beating by nearly four figures over the three year period, he said as far as he could see that was a loss and he must just have a lot in his pocket from someone else he had ripped off.
Went to 22 dealers over the next day and told them if they could beat it, the deal was theirs no questions asked. Half of them called me a liar. I don't know whether it is that good a deal and as the F56 gets older I imagine better deals will be able to be achieved as it becomes the old kid on the block and they have to start giving them away a bit more.
For the record though, 4 months afterwards while looking at a car for someone else, I managed to get a 3-dr Audi S1 with the full nav and pretty heavy on the options list for slightly less. Which given the price of the S1 I considered to be a better deal. But I doubt he would have given me as much for my old R56. Plus l don't want an S1. Nice though it is.
Back to mine though, I didn't care what the composition of deposit and monthly payments was - the only figure I was bothered about was how much cash I would be parting with over the three year term, and it kind of upsets most dealers as they are just used to adjusting the monthly payments to make everything seem rosier.
Being a bit of a novice to the whole PCP thing, the thing that did please me was the addition of certain optional extras making literally making £3 or £4 difference over three years (i.e. pence per month) because of the effect they have on depreciation within the finance model.
It got me a long way below the prices I was first quoted and I was more than happy with the price in the end as it was my target price which I didn't think was achievable after my first 10 days searching. I'm sure other people have done better, but I don't think at that time I could have achieved much more. If I can't get a deal next time round, I'll switch marques or just buy some old heap for pennies to tide me over. This time it worked for me - I might not be so lucky next time. But I won't enter in to what I judge to be a rip-off PCP.
Although it might get difficult if we have parity with the Euro by then!
Nice reply Herr_Vents thanks for that
I have never bought a car on PCP being a 'debt hater' sort of guy
I can get a JCW auto in thunder grey (black wheels and roof) for a few groats over £22k; sounds tempting...
Now I know the finance gurus always say buy appreciating assets and rent depreciating ones but I can't see any 'assets' worth buying at the moment lol so maybe a 'slow depreciating' JCW is the answer?
Hope you're enjoying the motor?
I have never bought a car on PCP being a 'debt hater' sort of guy
I can get a JCW auto in thunder grey (black wheels and roof) for a few groats over £22k; sounds tempting...
Now I know the finance gurus always say buy appreciating assets and rent depreciating ones but I can't see any 'assets' worth buying at the moment lol so maybe a 'slow depreciating' JCW is the answer?
Hope you're enjoying the motor?
So what are your monthly payments and what's the predicted value?
Herr_Vents what's the predicted value on your JCW?
Thanks gents
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2,212 Posts
I also spoke to a dealer who said he would beat any quote!
Shopped around a few around my way, one was over £3k cheaper than the others on the same spec, p/x etc, went back to the one who said he'd beat any quote and like above said the cheap dealer must be losing money and wouldn't compete!
If where I brought from was losing money or not wasn't my problem but I somehow doubt very much they lost money as bonuses are very big and most can't afford to miss the target!
No idea what it worked out to in percentages as I go by what the difference is to change!
Conclusion is "talk is cheap" & "put your money where your mouth is"
Shopped around a few around my way, one was over £3k cheaper than the others on the same spec, p/x etc, went back to the one who said he'd beat any quote and like above said the cheap dealer must be losing money and wouldn't compete!
If where I brought from was losing money or not wasn't my problem but I somehow doubt very much they lost money as bonuses are very big and most can't afford to miss the target!
No idea what it worked out to in percentages as I go by what the difference is to change!
Conclusion is "talk is cheap" & "put your money where your mouth is"
Joined
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2,212 Posts
Are you from Somerset?
I think I worked out what is happening, mini is giving a £2050 deposit contribution towards a Cooper S
How much margin do dealers have in the car? 10%? Once I know this hopefully I can get some dealer to sell me a car at 'cost price' lol
Finance example:
24 monthly payments of £167.72
Term of agreement 24 months
Purchase fee £1.00
On the road cash price £18,980.00
Your deposit £13,134.00
Our deposit contribution £2,050.00
Total deposit £15,184.00
Amount of credit £3,796.00
Fixed rate of interest 5.8% fixed
A.P.R. 5.9%
Total amount payable £19,210.28
How much margin do dealers have in the car? 10%? Once I know this hopefully I can get some dealer to sell me a car at 'cost price' lol
Finance example:
24 monthly payments of £167.72
Term of agreement 24 months
Purchase fee £1.00
On the road cash price £18,980.00
Your deposit £13,134.00
Our deposit contribution £2,050.00
Total deposit £15,184.00
Amount of credit £3,796.00
Fixed rate of interest 5.8% fixed
A.P.R. 5.9%
Total amount payable £19,210.28
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320 Posts
no idea on residual without digging papers out the loft!!!! 4.9% apr from memory. Paid 'cash' for exhaust as technically an accessory and didnt want on pcp, so put minimum deposit down on finance.
Tried 3 dealers, local one was thereabouts give or take a couple of quid and they knew their stuff. Also chucked me the keys to a jcw for the day with half a tank of fuel without me asking and tld me to go and give it some. Fair enough, nice bunch, felt I'd be looked after if i had any issues, deal done. Few days after delivery, got a puncture, they coulnt do enough for me.
Tried 3 dealers, local one was thereabouts give or take a couple of quid and they knew their stuff. Also chucked me the keys to a jcw for the day with half a tank of fuel without me asking and tld me to go and give it some. Fair enough, nice bunch, felt I'd be looked after if i had any issues, deal done. Few days after delivery, got a puncture, they coulnt do enough for me.
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207 Posts
Hi driver69
I'm only a Scummy Little Cooper S kind of a guy and not a full fat JCW owner, and I can't find the GFV figures at present.
Debt itself doesn't bother me as long as it's cheap debt. I think with the current shifts in car technology, it's a dangerous time to have paid outright for something, as things can get old very quickly. Plus I just didn't feel like having £20,000+ missing from my mortgage account where, including the tax relief I get in there, the opportunity cost was quite severe.
What I have been told by more than one dealer is that, certainly at particular points of the year, hitting ever-increasing sales targets and therefore keeping the badge on the building and being able to charge main dealer service rates is much more important than the negligible profit in a new car. I imagine that dealers probably are in more of a frame of mind to make a deal for a higher value car work as well. The more I see of these "dealer-only-fitted" exhaust things and what-have-you, the more I think these are ways for BMW to put some profit back in the hands of the dealers who they know are giving motors away and eating their margin up in an aggressive marketplace against cheaper competition.
This is my eleventh car in 22 years, and the three before my last two relatively cheap £10k-ish used Minis were 6 month old BMW AUC high spec six potters which were all cash bought and as far as I was concerned, damned expensive motors and much more than I ever intended spending on a car. I did my homework and hung about each time for one that one 2-3k below market value, kept it for a year or so and traded down at the right time, getting very nearly what I paid for it back and collecting a cheque for some money on the way down.
In retrospect, I consider myself very lucky to have got away with it, and didn't see me having another good roll of the dice in my first foray into relatively expensive motoring again for the first time in nine years. Given that, I was more than happy for someone else to take the risk.
The thing is, luckily there are more than enough people out there prepared to pay way over the odds by not getting any discount whatsoever for dealers to trade-off that profit in the favour of those of us who will hammer the price down. I was at Williams of Manchester one murky, damp, dark late Saturday afternoon in January (who incidentally got nowhere near anything like a good price) and they had an ex-demo Cooper D 5-dr up for sale for something like £14,500.
A couple in their late fifties/early sixties walked in. The exchange went like this, as verbatim as I can remember:
Gent: The blue one there. We've just seen it and we'd like it.
Dealer: Oh right. Well -
Gent: Not so fast though. How much money off can you give me?
Dealer: £100?
Gent: [Offers hand to shake] Done!
A bit later when my guy had gone off to "see his Manager" about the price, I ear-wigged more of their conversation...
Dealer: So it's just an impulse buy then is it?
Gent: Oh yes - you have to buy on the day you see it. If I came back a second time and you caught me looking at it, you'd know I wanted it and then I wouldn't be able to do a deal with you!
He got £100 off and was happy with it. And I thought, well it only takes two or three of those a month for a salesman to have a bit of room with his boss to offer a screamer of a deal to a "me"
When you're doing a trade-in, it's something of a game of smoke and mirrors, but of the many dealers I went to this time round, I was never offered more than £2,800 for my old Cooper S and that was what I was told the trade-in value was. Not only did this guy whack that up to £4,700, but his finance deal blitzed anything else. I know that at the time, with all my options (and I think they amounted to £3,000 list price), against a web-site finance quote with a deposit of £3,000, my deal worked out at a discount of 16.9%.
List price is for mugs, but there are enough of them out there. I know that at the time, I felt very much torn as I had a deal in place on a Fiesta ST-3 which was going to cost me £9,850 over the three years WITHOUT a trade-in, so to pass on for a car which is a notably better drive than the F56 I felt I was paying through the nose. However, as an entire package since it doesn't give a lot in driving dynamics away but is luxuriously appointed compared to all opposition and on 17 NRFs with VDC almost an S-Class in comfort next to an ST, I'm still reasonably happy that I paid more and you get what you pay for.
I'm in the lucky position of measuring my garage up badly, so I can only buy small cars now so it stops me being dumb and buying a 3- or 5- series or a Jag or something as I can't lock them away safely at night. Possibly the most cost effective mistake I've ever made. My only issue now is that small cars are getting wider... Hopefully by the time a Mini is too wide for me to get the door open in the garage, it will have the 7-series key fob where I can reverse it in whilst sat on the toilet.
Sorry if that's the last thing you read before eating, folks!
I'm only a Scummy Little Cooper S kind of a guy and not a full fat JCW owner, and I can't find the GFV figures at present.
Debt itself doesn't bother me as long as it's cheap debt. I think with the current shifts in car technology, it's a dangerous time to have paid outright for something, as things can get old very quickly. Plus I just didn't feel like having £20,000+ missing from my mortgage account where, including the tax relief I get in there, the opportunity cost was quite severe.
What I have been told by more than one dealer is that, certainly at particular points of the year, hitting ever-increasing sales targets and therefore keeping the badge on the building and being able to charge main dealer service rates is much more important than the negligible profit in a new car. I imagine that dealers probably are in more of a frame of mind to make a deal for a higher value car work as well. The more I see of these "dealer-only-fitted" exhaust things and what-have-you, the more I think these are ways for BMW to put some profit back in the hands of the dealers who they know are giving motors away and eating their margin up in an aggressive marketplace against cheaper competition.
This is my eleventh car in 22 years, and the three before my last two relatively cheap £10k-ish used Minis were 6 month old BMW AUC high spec six potters which were all cash bought and as far as I was concerned, damned expensive motors and much more than I ever intended spending on a car. I did my homework and hung about each time for one that one 2-3k below market value, kept it for a year or so and traded down at the right time, getting very nearly what I paid for it back and collecting a cheque for some money on the way down.
In retrospect, I consider myself very lucky to have got away with it, and didn't see me having another good roll of the dice in my first foray into relatively expensive motoring again for the first time in nine years. Given that, I was more than happy for someone else to take the risk.
The thing is, luckily there are more than enough people out there prepared to pay way over the odds by not getting any discount whatsoever for dealers to trade-off that profit in the favour of those of us who will hammer the price down. I was at Williams of Manchester one murky, damp, dark late Saturday afternoon in January (who incidentally got nowhere near anything like a good price) and they had an ex-demo Cooper D 5-dr up for sale for something like £14,500.
A couple in their late fifties/early sixties walked in. The exchange went like this, as verbatim as I can remember:
Gent: The blue one there. We've just seen it and we'd like it.
Dealer: Oh right. Well -
Gent: Not so fast though. How much money off can you give me?
Dealer: £100?
Gent: [Offers hand to shake] Done!
A bit later when my guy had gone off to "see his Manager" about the price, I ear-wigged more of their conversation...
Dealer: So it's just an impulse buy then is it?
Gent: Oh yes - you have to buy on the day you see it. If I came back a second time and you caught me looking at it, you'd know I wanted it and then I wouldn't be able to do a deal with you!
He got £100 off and was happy with it. And I thought, well it only takes two or three of those a month for a salesman to have a bit of room with his boss to offer a screamer of a deal to a "me"
When you're doing a trade-in, it's something of a game of smoke and mirrors, but of the many dealers I went to this time round, I was never offered more than £2,800 for my old Cooper S and that was what I was told the trade-in value was. Not only did this guy whack that up to £4,700, but his finance deal blitzed anything else. I know that at the time, with all my options (and I think they amounted to £3,000 list price), against a web-site finance quote with a deposit of £3,000, my deal worked out at a discount of 16.9%.
List price is for mugs, but there are enough of them out there. I know that at the time, I felt very much torn as I had a deal in place on a Fiesta ST-3 which was going to cost me £9,850 over the three years WITHOUT a trade-in, so to pass on for a car which is a notably better drive than the F56 I felt I was paying through the nose. However, as an entire package since it doesn't give a lot in driving dynamics away but is luxuriously appointed compared to all opposition and on 17 NRFs with VDC almost an S-Class in comfort next to an ST, I'm still reasonably happy that I paid more and you get what you pay for.
I'm in the lucky position of measuring my garage up badly, so I can only buy small cars now so it stops me being dumb and buying a 3- or 5- series or a Jag or something as I can't lock them away safely at night. Possibly the most cost effective mistake I've ever made. My only issue now is that small cars are getting wider... Hopefully by the time a Mini is too wide for me to get the door open in the garage, it will have the 7-series key fob where I can reverse it in whilst sat on the toilet.
Sorry if that's the last thing you read before eating, folks!
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207 Posts
I have to say, dgswick, as I get older I appreciate good service more and am prepared to give away a little in cash terms - much to my annoyance - so I can appreciate your process. If people aren't helpful when you're on the cusp of spending a truckload of money with them, they certainly aren't going to be when it all goes wrong and they already have your cash!
When I'm looking at a car I always throw in some questions I already know the answers to just to see how much they'll lie. And some tricky ones just to test their product knowledge. So many salesmen don't know their products. 6 of them also described a Cooper S as being a twin-turbo, and even when grilled further would still say it.
Although I have 6 dealerships closer to me that the one I purchased from in the end, I made a decision that it would go there for all servicing and anything it needs in the future on the basis that anything and everything is their issue and no-one else can be blamed! In fairness, there have been a few hiccups along the way, but their service has been the best of any BMW/MINI outfit I've ever used, and I've pretty much alienated myself from 4 of the aforementioned other 5 nearest me anyway because of various "disagreements" over the years, which now require me having brass balls (which I do not possess) to show my face again, so it's a good thing.
I demand good service. I'm paying a lot of money to drive this relatively over-priced car, so I deserve it. If I get anything less than that, I'm a nightmare. If I get it, I'm nice as pie. I love this country (a little less by the day, but I still do) but we stink at customer service as a rule. And the fact that places stick out like a sore thumb when they actually provide it is demonstrative of that fact!
I'm a TLA sort of guy but you even got me with NRF and VDC?? wtf
And I get you with the technology, I'm looking forward to the 750kg Mini; a 150bhp 3 cylinder will do nicely in that one :nerd:
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Non Run Flats and Variable Damper Control. What have the World Tennis Federation got to do with it, anyway?
you know its me Dave!!
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2,212 Posts
I do now but didn't when I first saw your name on here, always thought you were more than happy with the clubbie!
The F56's are certainly a jump up internally but still not 100% sure on the outside even though I have one!
You coming to my ProDrive tour?
For me yes.
mine was £2k off the price once i finished adding all the spec.
i worked purely to a monthly budget so to me it didnt matter the final price.
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