Auto Stop Start Dangerous ??

palgt1 · Jul 2, 2014

I know that the auto stop start has been discussed on various threads already, but I thought I'd share my experiences so far. I've had my car about 3 mths now and following a few juddery starts and stalls, generally disable this function.
However, on three occasions now,I have come very close to being shunted from behind ( there must be a joke in there somewhere !!)). This happens when you are approaching a junction or roundabout and slow down ready to stop if needed. However, if you stop momentarily but then continue because the road is clear, if the auto stop has already activated the car stalls, unfortunately you have already moved forward expecting to pull away and you find yourself with no power.
As I say this has happened to me three times already - the first time I put down to driver error and not being fully used to this function - the second time made me very wary and the third time scarred the life out of me .
Anyone else with a similar experience ??

MintMark · Jul 2, 2014

Ummm, I pressed "Like" because it's an informative post... but I don't like it, if you see what I mean :/

It almost sounds like we need a way to set the sensitivity of it... Does the driving mode affect it I wonder? Maybe it won't be so aggressive in modes other than green?

palgt1 · Jul 2, 2014

Don't drive in green mode but this has occurred when I've been in mid mode. Only just posted this thread because it only happened a couple of hours ago and if it wasn't for the reactions of the bloke behind (who wasn't best pleased - understandably) I could well have been looking at some substantial damage !!

andyross37 · Jul 2, 2014

I've never used stop/start.

The JCW R56's weren't fitted with it until 2012.

I think I will probably switch the system off, but it's interesting to hear of your experiences.

I don't think it should switch the car off until you've selected neutral and taken your foot off the clutch.....just my personal view

palgt1 · Jul 2, 2014

You know something Andy I can't remember the sequence of events but I'm sure I was only coasting up to the roundabout, with the car still in gear and the clutch depressed but before I could re engage the gear the car had cut out and that's what caused it to stall - (I had to restart the engine in the normal way using the red button ). Will have to reproduce the circumstances (on a traffic free road) and see if it happens again !!

GoKart7 · Jul 2, 2014

Sorry mate can't help you there - I'm sure everyone else will chip in - but my wife has similar problems on our older Mini - I don't know why - whereas I don't - I'm just wondering as was mentioned some time ago if that engine - and now a lot more quieter - has anything to do with it? I'm saying that because this morning it happened to me - it did cut off and I judged the stop start to be completely out of sync with the engine sound - first time that's happened...

Matt · Jul 2, 2014

i cant see how this is happening to you all?

my engine doesnt stop unless im stationary, in neutral and foot off clutch...

having played a little bit with this after seeing it posted.. the only way i can get the engine to cut out sooner is by approaching a junction in neutral, foot off clutch... under 3mph the engine seems to cut out... so you dont need to actually be stationary as such.

but at the same time my engine came back on line with the clutch being depressed, with enough time to slip it into 2nd gear and pull away.

in most situations i control if the engine stops or not... traffic drives me nuts, so its off unless i can see ill be sitting there for a while. If ive approached a set of lights knowing they take a while to change, again ill kill the engine... apart from that, this start stop feature is a pain in the botty....

do remember its the drivers fault if they hit you from behind... however i can see the down side of having a car off the road and in for repairs... so best avoid at all costs regardless of whos to blame!

palgt1 · Jul 2, 2014

The thing is Matt , I haven't changed my style of driving - so in 3 mths it's happened to me three times, so there must be a blip somewhere or it would happen every time. The scary thing is not knowing what set of circumstances actually triggers it !!

MintMark · Jul 2, 2014

The manual says "Neutral is engaged and the clutch pedal is not pressed"... which I guess they only expect if you are not moving... but I do sometimes coast like this to a stop.

donnaj1dlh · Jul 3, 2014

Yep...I think the car knows when you wheels stop rotating doesn't it?? At least that's what I've found. (Perhaps another benefit of TPS?).

I think it might be best to contact your service dept, like you say, it sounds dangerous. Perhaps its a one-off driver error but its best to flag it up incase this starts happening to more of us.

.......and the driver behind you shouldn't have been so bloomin' close. If he did hit you, it'd be his fault!

olires · Jul 2, 2014

It should only stop the engine if you're in neutral and your foot is off the clutch pedal.

If you stall the engine by letting the revs drop too much while approaching a junction (as I've done because the car's so quiet and I'm not fully used to it) then pressing the clutch pedal in will start the car up again. This could lead a driver to think it's the auto start/stop function.

I do find it irritating, though. I try not to keep the car in gear with the clutch pedal in while I'm waiting at junctions.

It seems like each time you start the car from cold, the auto stop/start function turns itself back on.

Oli

MintMark · Jul 2, 2014

Well I can't wait to try this now...

JJH · Jul 2, 2014

Hello... I've read this topic with interest as my last R56 MINI was the first stop/start enabled car I've owned, and my new F56 MINI has really IMPRESSED me with the way the system has improved!

From my experience, stop/start on both my R56 & F56 MINI cars (manual gearboxes) only operates (as others have noted) when the car has stopped, in neutral & with the clutch pedal released.

Granted, there is a moment's delay as the engine starts so, at a busy junction or roundabout, I will keep the clutch pedal pressed - ready to move forward - so as to avoid any issues with the cars behind me. The simple alternative is, of course, to use the toggle switch to turn the function off while driving in heavy traffic.

The reason I'm so impressed by the latest implementation is that the restarts (Cooper D) are faster & smoother than they were with my old Cooper, and I really like the 'ready' position on the tacho & warning indicator on the small info screen when the system is not available.

For me, this is a good fuel-saving function that I enjoy using where traffic conditions allow.

I hope this helps to take the discussion forward....

baldyspoon · Jul 2, 2014

I have this on my fiesta and love it, it only turns off in neutral and clutch fully out. And when it restarts it's instant no delay, hoping when I test drive a mini it's as good as the fiesta stop start

CO2slave · Jul 2, 2014

Yes it is a big pain in the botty to say the least , basically this has been foisted on us by the manufacturers because of the Co2 rules !!

I do think that BMW/Mini have put a considerable amount of thought into the system and it can be made to work to your advantage.

It normal operating conditions with the Stop/Start on the car has to be virtually stationary , in neutral , with the clutch in the up position. There are lots of other parameters such as temperature , electrical demand ( this includes steering as well) and battery charge . So providing the engine is warm enough , and the electrical demands on the system are not too high and the battery has enough charge then the engine will stop.

Then the engine will restart when you depress the clutch or if the battery charge drops ( because of power drain from ancillary components air con , fan , steering , light etc.) to the point where the engine needs to start . Not really sure why people worry about this because even if it stops unexpectedly the engine starts straight away when you press the clutch down. In fact if you stall the engine will restart the same way so you don't need to press the start/stop button - just a quick redip of the clutch will get the engine going again (I have not tried this on my mini as I haven't stalled it yet but all the other stop/start systems I have tried work the same way)

Sometimes if you are stopped for a while the battery while run down enough to need to restart the engine , this can be a bit disconcerting but once you know it does it then I think most people are OK with it.

The best way to use it in my experience is to allow the system to work when you know you have a reasonable time stationary ( over 30 secs or so) otherwise the blooming thing is on/off all the time , otherwise if you are crawling in traffic the system is best to stay off.

Steve07 · Jul 2, 2014

Hi,
My wife has a Cooper auto and the stop/start function does cause her a few issues.
However, we worked out that it is disabled if you choose Sport mode.

Not sure if this is the same on a manual?

I am reading your posts with interest as my new F56 Cooper S is due in August......

palgt1 · Jul 2, 2014

Thanks guys for all your input and suggestions. The problem is that you tend to drive automatically, on instinct, so to try and retrace your steps to fathom out what may have gone wrong is an impossible task. Just thought it was worth while mentioning so everyone else can be aware so that it doesn't come as a bad surprise and bite you on the bum !!
Cheers everyone .

MaskedAnkle · Jul 2, 2014

I had the start/stop in my R56 Cooper. It took a little getting used to, but generally worked ok.

I think the version in the F56 has moved on, and is even better than before.

The trick for me, in any driving mode, is to keep the clutch down if you think you're only going to be stopped for a moment. Generally, it won't turn the engine off unless you've stopped, the clutch is up, and no gear is selected.

Where I had the odd annoying moment in the older car, so far, I have not seen any issues in the new car.

Hat · Jul 3, 2014

on the auto it works on the brake - brake to a stop, it cuts. lift off the brake, it restarts

palgt1 · Jul 3, 2014

Yea my wife's got that on her BMW auto and it works like a dream - will continue to monitor and report back.

Kiwi · Jul 3, 2014

Both the Cooper and CooperS manuals I test drove with stop start worked 100% with no problems at all. I actuarially enjoyed the Mini stop start and thought it was a little better than my BMW auto with stop start.

texy · Jul 3, 2014

After 3 1/2 years of driving my Dooper, I got into the habit of just pressing the clutch when I feel there is a possibility of needing to stop when slowly approaching a junction. So I am effectively controlling the start/stop manually. With my new (petrol) F56 (which I only received yesterday), the 'problem' is that the engine is so quiet, I have to think for split second to pull away or not as I am not confident the engine has restarted!

Texy

donnaj1dlh · Jul 3, 2014

Sometimes I think these bloomin' MINIs are too clever for their own good!!! Or maybe as I'm getting older I like technology less..........

palgt1 · Jul 3, 2014

I'm now starting to worry that my car is more intelligent than me - where did it all go wrong !!!

GoKart7 · Jul 3, 2014

Right then came to a junction in our older Mini

Had auto stop start on

Stopped - waited - about to move - put my foot down onto the clutch into first gear - stalled it - at first I thought I didn't put my right foot down properly engaging the petrol pedal in motion - but what was clear was that on second go I realized I didn't put my foot down on the clutch to all the way down - if that makes any sense.

So it seems on the older Mini if you have stop start on you have to put your left foot to all the way down on the clutch in order for it to not stall - it is deceptive because obviously you have no sound of the engine to work with - I think both things work together but it's something that you are not aware of until it happens.

Hence - in a situation where you need to move and it stalls it wouldn't be the ideal scenario - the thing is that it's part of the system in the car and part human error - not an error for the sake of one but just an innocent one in my opinion.

Sorted

palgt1 · Jul 3, 2014

Cheers for checking this out for me GK - I know it's a cool feature but I just don't trust it anymore - think il just disable it - the money I lose in economy I'll claw back in using cheap petrol !!!!

olires · Jul 3, 2014

palgt1, I had the same thing happen to me this morning. On approaching a roundabout, with the clutch pedal depressed and while still in gear, as I stopped the engine stopped and a message appeared on the big centre screen saying something like "Auto start/stop disabled. Use the toggle switch to start the engine."

All of which would be fine if it the car hadn't just decided to stop the engine for no reason at all.

Very very odd.

Oli

palgt1 · Jul 3, 2014

Thanks Oli - very reassuring in that I haven't completely lost all my marbles !!!

Washy · Jul 3, 2014

Checked with Mrs W who hasn't had any issues as such, but she says the engine is too quiet and sometimes you don't know if it is stopped or not.

donnaj1dlh · Jul 3, 2014

A tell tale sign is the centre LED ring goes off, like chasing lights with a little bit of green. Its hard to describe. The reverse happens when the engine restarts.

MintMark · Jul 3, 2014

Oli... so not a check control message then?

The manual suggests that a check control message means a failure of the system. It does say the feature will deactivate automatically "in certain circumstances" and "for safety's sake" and gives the example of the driver being absent!

olires · Jul 3, 2014

No, not a check control. As for the driver being absent, well, what can I say? It was early in the morning

MintMark · Jul 4, 2014

I got to that part of the manual because the message you mentioned said "Auto start/stop disabled" and this was in a section for auto start/stop called "Automatic deactivation", so I thought it might be the explanation.

Your message then said "Use the toggle switch to start the engine." which is consistent with the start/stop feature being disabled.

I wonder if it disables itself if the engine stalls?

olires · Jul 4, 2014

It might do, but on this occasion I most definitely didn't stall it, as I had the clutch pedal in.

You know what I will do though? Next time I see the sign with a strike through the auto start stop I'll deliberately stall it and see if I can reproduce that issue.

Oli

Matt · Jul 4, 2014

id take it back in if it was my car...
the engine should not stop while the clutch is depressed - as this prevents the auto start stop feature from doing its thing.

patch · Jul 6, 2014

I didn't read the full thread so I'm not sure if it was already covered ... I have found that in the "Minimalism" view, you can view exactly why the auto start/stop did not stop the car even though it should (the clutch is not depressed and you are on neutral). It will say the reason why it is not stopping the engine. Usually it's "comfort oriented" like making sure enough fresh air comes out the vents.

I also experienced an automatic restart after I stalled the car. While releasing the clutch in 1st gear, I stalled the car and I heard the starter restart the engine automatically. It's probably a side-effect of the auto start/stop. Not sure it was a good thing though because it actually surprised me. I already knew I had stalled the car and a second later the engine was already restarted. That did not feel natural ...

For info, while fiddling with the auto start/stop feature and trying to find its flaws, I found a way to have the engine "really stopped" by the auto start/stop feature. DISCLAIMER: DON'T TRY THIS YOURSELF. I am just sharing my experience:
1- I drove with the car as usual
2- I stopped somewhere with clutch depressed and I put gear in neutral
3- I released the clutch
4- (the car was in "ready" mode ... i.e. the engine was stopped and ready to be auto-started again)
5- while having the clutch released (not pressing it) I put the car in gear (1st speed for instance)
6- (the car was still in "ready" mode ... i.e. the engine was stopped but what would happen if it decided to start !?!)
7- I then convinced the car that it needed to restart the engine ... I lowered the requested temperature and put the fan to max (it would have wanted to start the engine to have that AC compressor running)
8- booom ! when it would have started the car, since I was already "in gear" with clutch released, it completely stopped the car for fail-safe.

Auto Stop Start Dangerous ??

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